(no subject)

[noahgibbs]

Tryptophan, found in turkey, is apparently a serotonin predecessor. So in addition to making you sleepy, it should make you feel happy in a calm way. Serene, sorta.

Assuming I've got my serotonin and dopamine sorted out, anyway. All this stuff has too much vocabulary.

Tryptophan is also apparently a mild nootropic, and (for that reason) perhaps also a mild aphrodisiac. Which would explain a couple of situations I've been in...

The web makes the world look like such an idyllic place. It makes me want to pick up a wide variety of chemicals. I could make them into little "face the new day" cocktails, sort of like really foul-tasting thin coffee.

They could be garnished, perhaps, with a live toad. I wish I knew who said "if you swallow a single live toad in the morning, nothing worse is likely to happen to you for the rest of the day." Sage advice.

Comments

[r-transpose-p.livejournal.com]

It is, in fact, a seratonin precursor.

Which is why, btw, "5-hydroxy-tryptophan" (available at some health food stores) is also suspected to curb at least some of the brain damage caused by a certain seratonin-depleting illegal substance.

If you're not a user of said substance, 5-hydroxy-tryptophan (or 5HTP) is actually a little bit uplifting to take on its own. Its not a substance-level experience by any means (in terms of magnitude-of-effect, slightly less then coffee), but it can make you a little happy and uplifted for a little bit (washing it down with coffee is also fun, btw)

[angelbob.livejournal.com]

Interesting. It's apparently illegal to buy just tryptophan these days after a bad batch awhile back. The fact that you can buy a different tryptophan-based serotonin precursor makes me happy. Upholds the absurdity of the original ruling, as it were.

I'm trying to remember my serotonin-depleting illegal substances. Is cocaine psychosis based on long-term serotonin depletion, or do I misremember?

[r-transpose-p.livejournal.com]

I think toads urinate when frightened.

So most likely "swallowing a live toad when you wake up" entails "swallowing a live urinating toad when you wake up"

[r-transpose-p.livejournal.com]

Well, it seems your neurotransmitter dyslexia has a corresponding drug-action dyslexia.

I think stimulants act by boosting dopamine (primarily)
Ecstacy boosts seratonin.
Other hallucinogens are "seratonin agonists", meaning they boost it in some areas of the brain, and tune down the levels in other areas of the brain.

For what its worth, here are some irrelevant facts

• fact pair one
  
  
  
  • high dopamine levels are linked to schizophrenia
  
  
  • john nash was schizophrenic
  
  


• fact pair two
  
  
  
  • amphetamines boost dopamine levels
  
  
  • Erdos is widely suspected to have been an amphetamine user
  
  
  
  

Ergo, I have linked (though without statistical significance) "high dopamine levels" with "being a famous 20th century mathematician"

(note. While I do believe the above linkage is cool, and Erdos was a pretty cool guy from what I read, I am definatively NOT encouraging people reading this to use amphetamines)

[eub.livejournal.com]

Other hallucinogens are "seratonin agonists", meaning they boost it in some areas of the brain, and tune down the levels in other areas of the brain.

While we're on terminology, this is mixed agonist/antagonist or partial-agonist activity. An agonist simply binds to and activates a receptor (has both affinity and activity), whereas an antagonist binds to but does not activate it, blocking serotonin or whatever from activating it.

[angelbob.livejournal.com]

Speaking as a Texas boy with a boring childhood: yes, yes they do.

And again, what worse than that is likely to happen to you during the day? I mean, unless you're a stockbroker or something.

[inhumandecency.livejournal.com]

Amphetamine / cocaine psychosis is caused by extended high levels of dopamine. Dopamine is believed to be a "significance signal," indicating when a thought or perception is important and needs to be understood, so it's easy to see why a person who's on amphetamines for several days straight would begin thinking that the patterns in the static on channel 37 must be messages from God. Serotonin deprivation is probably also implicated, as serotonin and dopamine usually oppose one another, and serotonin is responsible for dampening learned reactions (which is why it helps people quit smoking).

[angelbob.livejournal.com]

Interesting. I'd never noticed the opposition between dampening learned reactions and sensory significance, but it makes some sense.

Sensory significance (often linked to intense emotional states) gives the highest likelihood of an emprint, or one-time learning. That's great, but it's the exact opposite mindset from the breaking up of learned reactions.

I'm going to have to think more about this. The idea that such opposition has a chemical basis is also intriguing. This all ties most amusingly into a previous recent LJ discussion on the definition of genius and how it's related to quick formation of mental "habits" versus quickly breaking them.

Excellent. I needed a new mental chew-toy, and this one looks like it still has a lot of rawhide left.

[inhumandecency.livejournal.com]

The turkey story is actually an urban legend (as Cecil Adams says, after a big thanksgiving dinner you don't exactly see the people who ate the ham strapping on their rollerblades). For one thing, tryptophan absorption is regulated not only by tryptophan quantity, but by its proportion relative to other amino acids. It is also greatly enhanced by the presence of insulin, which is elicited by eating carbohydrates.

Moreover, according to the USDA nutrient analysis database (http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/cgi-bin/nut_search.pl), a portion of turkey has just about the same amount of tryptophan as an isocaloric portion of beef or ham, and they all have about the same tryptophan:protein ratio as well. So it's not really about the turkey.

Tryptophan is not an aphrodisiac. Ask anyone who's been on antidepressants (which universally act to enhance serotonin activity. Of course, it might act that way for individuals who are too anxious to have sex, but in general it hurts. The male orgasmic refractory period (the period of impotence just after orgasm) is caused by a release of serotonin.
Some internet sources point out that serotonin may enhance sexual experience for men (or the partners of men) who reach orgasm too quickly, but this is works by inhibiting the basic sexual response.

[angelbob.livejournal.com]

How odd. Not about the urban legend -- sure, there's plenty of those, and it's good to know that turkey isn't an unusually good source of tryptophan. The bit that throws me is the idea that serotonin inhibits basic sexual response. I know a number of people who have had odd results under the effects of potent stimulants (thus dopamine, not serotonin), but perhaps that's nothing to do with dopamine or serotonin and uses some other mechanism entirely.

And I can't say I've ever used Ecstasy, so I can't tell you what's up with that.

If that's true about the refractory period being caused by serotonin release then some things about my behavior in college would make sense. Of course, that may have had less to do with being overcaffeinated and more with being eighteen. Sounds like I'll have to experiment until I figure it out :-)

And it still leaves two Thanksgivings unexplained, but maybe that's just because everybody is thrilled to be spending Thanksgiving with friends instead of family -- and I'm going to stop speculating now.

[inhumandecency.livejournal.com]

And I can't say I've ever used Ecstasy, so I can't tell you what's up with that.

Ecstasy enhances touch sense, and some people find this erotic. However, it is more difficult, and sometimes impossible, to actually have sex on ecstasy.

holy shit

[r-transpose-p.livejournal.com]

Eli, how do you read every journal that I do?

enough about sex

[r-transpose-p.livejournal.com]

This sex talk is intriguing, but I'm more interested in whether
mathematical 'genius' actually has a far simpler chemical explanation
then anyone has suspected.

More importantly, are there tradeoffs involved in
this hypothetical chemical causality of math
aptitude?

Like, maybe math people are more likely to take ridiculous
ideas seriously (new age religious belief among computer
programmers comes to mind) (also, how many of you fell for
more of the "are you gullible" tricks then any of your
elementary school classmates?)

Perhpas this explains why such a small portion of the population
has mathematical aptitude, becuase the tradeoffs involved
would make society largely non-functional if they occured
on a large scale.

Re: holy shit

[angelbob.livejournal.com]

Your "friends" page, perhaps? :-)

Re: enough about sex

[angelbob.livejournal.com]

Then it's a shame Ritalin is used primarily on the people least likely to show a penchant for math. Perhaps drugging America's youth vigorously and randomly would have yielded a far richer crop of math geeks than in decades past.

Re: holy shit

[eub.livejournal.com]

To be honest, I have no idea who you might be. But I read dr4b's friends page when I'm procrastinating.

Re: enough about sex

[r-transpose-p.livejournal.com]

Hey, I know at least two math geeks who are on anti-ADD or anti-ADHD medication.